A letter sent to the Cabinet & MPs c/o REACH email.
09.07.2009
Dear
Prime Minister,
Senior Minister,
Minister Mentor,
Cabinet Ministers
& Members of Parliament,
From: Citizen
RE: Concerned Parent & Citizen
I am a regular contributor of REACH@reach.gov.sg since the start of the AWARE saga which enlightened me on the apparent dangers faced by our society today. Do forgive me if my letter is meet protocol due to my poor grammar and humble ignorance.
It is with a deep-seated concern for our children and our society and what the future will hold for us if citizens such as me and like-minded citizens do not start to take active participation in our own well-being and also our society that I am writing to you now.
As we journey into a new millennium, it is understandable that our society has to evolve within and without to keep step with the changes in and around us to stay relevant, be more cosmopolitan and survive the challenges facing our little Red Dot.
My family and I fully empathize with and support our Govt’s various initiatives & actions, as has been shown in the sacrifices which we have made past and present.
Nevertheless, the deep-seated concern we have is, albeit, my own opinion, is that our society is now beset by an organized and vocal “Minority” with “moral” issues, such that, it is now assailing the very bastion of our society, which is; the family unit, and where the “Minority” amongst the gay society is pushing for a change using our very private/ public institutions, media and also into the corridors of power in private business & in Govt, to subtly effect the very changes on our moral fabric as an Asian Nation.
What is happening in USA should not be a template for us as an Asian nation to follow. It is heartening that MOE did finally follow through on its stated objective to make the family unit as the moral backbone in our society. But, it will not be enough if nothing is done to forestall or even restrict the “unimpeded access and opportunities” that the vocal “Minority” presently has in penetrating all sectors of our society to convert our young and naïve children and a generally passive public. If Govt is not careful and watchful, we will one day turn into another “USA”.
I have attached an article on the “Gay Agenda” which of course is from a Christian movement, but, take away the Christian contents and you will see how the “Gay Agenda” is being implemented in our little Red Dot. Slowly and quietly.
Without doubt, our security agencies are competent and ever watchful but as a stake-holder, I wish to convey my apprehensions regarding these “Minority” and how it will affect our society. How has it come to that and why is it still allowed such “space” is a mystery which is still not being addressed? How is it that so many major companies are supporting them in kind?
Realizing the inadequacy of REACH as an instrument to voice out our disquiet, as a parent and concerned citizen, I speak for others of my kind when I say that we are unhappy about how a major media, ST, has not shown impartiality as was seen in the recent article on AWARE which was accorded a full page when our new NMPs were announced.
Hopefully, MOE and all departments in our Govt, on it’s part, will stay vigilant in accepting AWARE or any of it’s kind which comes in various shape & colour such as the new entity, “New Charter of Compassion” which, in my opinion, may be another “front” by the same people who espouses and actively promotes gay Rights. The “Gay Agenda” is very real and has been working overtime within our society as we sleep. It veils itself in “sheep’s clothing” and usurps the position of fighting for “Human Rights” & “Diversity” & “Inclusiveness” while surreptitiously pre-positions itself in promotion of the “Gay Agenda” in our own backyard.
As Govt has stated clearly that ‘gays” have now been openly accepted into the Govt fold and even into our various political organizations such as PAP Youth, I am fearful that the “Minority” will try to effect changes within our organizations, such as attempted by an individual, who joint PAP Youth for some years and openly stated her intentions in public. I am fearful that one day we may see (maybe not in my lifetime but in my children’s lifetime) it may culminate into another “Lee Teng Hui” who destroyed the primacy of the Kuomintang from within; which is how the “Gay Agenda” works.
My letter to your Excellency and honoured Members of Parliament is to highlight this creeping danger within our society. That is all we, as concerned parents and like-minded people can do as I have indicated earlier in this letter that we have only one avenue to voice out our concerns and that is REACH where our concerns and opinions hardly reach the masses. We hardly have any defenses against such machinations and manipulation. We do not even have a support organization.
Furthermore, this is hardly a religious angle but actually an issue which concerns our very well-being as a Nation state, its ideals and its promotion of family values.
Last but not least, on behalf of concerned parents and citizens, I wish Govt will come to the fore on these matters to assuage our concerns and fears and consider looking into this “Gay Agenda” issue, creeping into our society and Govt; with utmost urgency and speed.
Thank you.
Music Playlist 1
Thursday, July 9, 2009
Tuesday, July 7, 2009
Unmasking The Gay Agenda
http://www.cwfa.org/articles/14696/CFI/family/index.htm
Excerpts from Concerned Women of America (CWA). Although it is a Christian movement but by no means irrelevant to what’s happening in our own backyard. For non-christians, just delete away the religious aspects and look at how the “Gay” activists “conquered” America.
This will provide you the “Reader” an insight as to how and in what manner our home-grown “Gay” activists in Singapore have been working overtime to influence our children, our young, our society, in our educational institutions, in our public spaces such as in the Arts, theatre, Media and in Govt. While you are sleeping, they are always working. Many Companies are supporting them and their programs financially:
The Goal:
As with every major political movement, the homosexual lobby is pushing a specific agenda. It is often called the gay agenda. At its core is a concerted effort to remove from society all traditional notions of sexual morality and replace them with the post-modern concept of sexual relativism. That is to say, when it comes to sex, there is never right or wrong. All sexual appetites are equal. If it feels good, do it.
Ultimately, the homosexual lobby’s primary objective is to radically redefine our foundational institutions of legitimate marriage and the nuclear family by unraveling God’s natural design for human sexuality. In so doing, they hope to elevate their own spiritual and biological counterfeit and establish a sexually androgynous society wherein natural distinctions between male and female are dissolved.
This creates cultural and moral anarchy.
Plan of Attack:
Ironically, sexual relativists are anything but relative. They are quite affirmative in principle. But the principles they foist demand comprehensive acceptance of homosexual conduct by force of law through federal edicts such as hate crimes legislation, the so-called Employment Non-Discrimination Act (ENDA) and by imposing government sanctioned same-sex marriage. All such government mandates grant special protected minority status to those who define themselves by aberrant sexual preferences and changeable sexual behaviors. These laws put people with traditional values directly in the crosshairs of official government policy.
Throughout society, homosexual activists demand that homosexual behaviors not only be tolerated, but celebrated. (That’s what the euphemistic slogan celebrate diversity supposes). They have masked their true political agenda by hijacking the language of the genuine civil rights movement and through the crafty and disingenuous rhetoric of tolerance and diversity.
Anyone who believes the Biblical directive that human sexuality is a gift from God, to be shared between man and wife within the bonds of marriage, is branded homophobic, hateful or discriminatory. They are to be silenced by all means possible.
Homofascist persecution continue to mount. And they’re by design. Noted homosexual activist and pornographer Clinton Fein addressed the gay agenda in a 2005 article candidly titled,
The Gay Agenda:
• On hate crimes laws: Hate Crime laws are just the beginning. Once those are passed either federally or in all 50 states, begin campaign to eliminate homophobia entirely.
• On hate thoughts and hate speech laws: Homophobic inclinations alone, even without any actions, should be criminal and punishable to the full extent of the law.
• On influencing public policy: Make sure that gay representation permeates every level of governance.
• On same-sex marriage: Demand the institution and then wreck it. James Dobson was right about our evil intentions. We just plan to be quicker than he thought.
• On gays in the Church: Reclaim Jesus. He was a Jewish queer to begin with, and don’t let anyone forget it.
The homosexual lobby’s goals have been clearly defined for decades. But for any goal to be successfully achieved, clever stratagem and sound methodology must be diligently applied.
In their manuscript, After the Ball: How America Will Conquer Its Fear and Hatred of Gays in the 90s (1989, Doubleday/Bantam), Harvard educated marketing experts Marshall Kirk and Hunter Madsen meticulously laid out the homosexual lobby’s blueprint for success in what is widely regarded as the handbook for the gay agenda.
They devised a three-pronged approach that the homosexual lobby has masterfully implemented in subsequent years: Desensitization, Jamming and Conversion.
Kirk and Madsen summarized their approach this way:
• Portray gays as victims, not as aggressive challengers.
• Give potential protectors a just cause.
• Make gays look good.
• Make victimizers look bad.
Desensitization:
Desensitization, wrote Kirk and Madsen, means subjecting the public to a continuous flood of gay-related advertising, presented in the least offensive fashion possible. If straights can’t shut off the shower, they may at least eventually get used to being wet.
As previously stated, glamorizing and normalizing homosexual conduct in our public schools is a full time endeavor. But the schools represent only one field of battle in the war over America’s body, mind and soul.
With the aid of a willing mainstream media and a like-minded Hollywood, societal desensitization has been largely achieved. Blockbusters like Tom Hanks Philadelphia, the late Heath Ledger’s Brokeback Mountain, and television programs like Will and Grace and Ellen represent a modern-day fairy tale, creating a dishonest and sympathetic portrayal of a lifestyle which is emotionally, spiritually and physically sterile.
Reality is replaced with fantasy. Gone are references to, or images of, the millions of homosexual men wasting away in hospice due to behaviorally related diseases such as HIV/AIDS, Hepatitis and Syphilis. (Unnatural behaviors beget natural consequences. As Romans 6:23 says, The wages of sin is death.)
And gone are references to, or images of, men and women trapped in the homosexual lifestyle who aimlessly seek to fill a spiritual and emotional void through promiscuous and meaningless sexual encounters.
The homosexual group, GLAAD, even offers awards to the television networks that most effectively carry the homosexual lobby’s water. The more distorted and positive the portrayal of homosexual conduct and the more frequently the networks shows such portrayals; the more likely networks are to win the coveted awards.
As Kirk and Madsen put it, homosexuals should be portrayed as the Everyman. In no time, they said, a skillful and clever media campaign could have the gay community looking like the veritable fairy godmother to Western Civilization.
Prophetic words from two very smart men.
Jamming:
Jamming refers to the public smearing of Christians, traditionalists or anyone else who opposes the gay agenda. Jam homo-hatred (i.e., disagreement with homosexual behaviors) by linking it to Nazi horror, wrote Kirk and Madsen. Associate all who oppose homosexuality with images of Klansmen demanding that gays be slaughtered, hysterical backwoods preachers, menacing punks, and a tour of Nazi concentration camps where homosexuals were tortured and gassed.
In any campaign to win over the public, gays must be portrayed as victims in need of protection so that straights will be inclined by reflex to adopt the role of protector ... The purpose of victim imagery is to make straights feel very uncomfortable, they suggested.
But, perhaps Kirk and Madsen’s most revealing admission came when they said, [O]ur effect is achieved without reference to facts, logic, or proof.
And so words like homophobe and heterosexism were pulled from thin air, not because they had substance, but because they were effective jamming tools. Anyone who holds traditional values relative to human sexuality suddenly became a homophobe, a hatemonger, a bigot.
Not even churches are safe.
Gays can undermine the moral authority of homo-hating churches over less fervent adherents by portraying [them] as antiquated backwaters, badly out of step with the latest findings of psychology. Against the atavistic tug of Old Time Religion one must set the mightier pull of science and public opinion. Such an unholy alliance has already worked well in America against the churches, on such topics as divorce and abortion. [T]hat alliance can work for gays.
And, oh, how it has.
Conversion:
Conversion means, in the words of Kirk and Madsen, conversion of the average American’s emotions, mind, and will, through a planned psychological attack, in the form of propaganda fed to the nation via the media.
In the early stages of any campaign to reach straight America, the masses should not be shocked and repelled by premature exposure to homosexual behavior itself.
Instead, the imagery of sex should be downplayed and gay rights should be reduced to an abstract social question as much as possible. First let the camel get his nose inside the tent and only later his unsightly derriere!
So, as Kirk and Madsen both astutely understood and surprisingly admitted, homosexual activism is really a big game of hide the ball. In order to achieve widespread acceptance of gayness, they had to remove the focus from what homosexuality really is (deviant sexual conduct) and shift it onto the craftily manufactured specter of gay civil rights.
In order to cut through much of the propagandist sugarcoating, one need only consider what two men must actually do in order to consummate a so-called gay marriage. Kirk and Madsen understood that. Most people are repulsed by the mechanics of homosexual conduct, but everyone is for civil rights. Of course, in reality, the homosexual lifestyle has nothing to do with civil rights and everything to do with conduct.
Therein lies the deception.
But There’s Hope
There’s hope for people who are trapped in the homosexual lifestyle or who suffer from unwanted same-sex attraction.
Gayness is not an immutable or unchangeable condition as homosexual apologists would have you believe. People can find freedom from homosexual behaviors and even from same-sex attractions. It’s not easy, but untold thousands of former homosexuals have done it.
There’s also hope in the ongoing battle between the gay agenda and our national moral integrity.
With God’s help, we can turn back the tide of sexual and moral relativism that has both permeated our society and offended our founding principles.
Excerpts from Concerned Women of America (CWA). Although it is a Christian movement but by no means irrelevant to what’s happening in our own backyard. For non-christians, just delete away the religious aspects and look at how the “Gay” activists “conquered” America.
This will provide you the “Reader” an insight as to how and in what manner our home-grown “Gay” activists in Singapore have been working overtime to influence our children, our young, our society, in our educational institutions, in our public spaces such as in the Arts, theatre, Media and in Govt. While you are sleeping, they are always working. Many Companies are supporting them and their programs financially:
The Goal:
As with every major political movement, the homosexual lobby is pushing a specific agenda. It is often called the gay agenda. At its core is a concerted effort to remove from society all traditional notions of sexual morality and replace them with the post-modern concept of sexual relativism. That is to say, when it comes to sex, there is never right or wrong. All sexual appetites are equal. If it feels good, do it.
Ultimately, the homosexual lobby’s primary objective is to radically redefine our foundational institutions of legitimate marriage and the nuclear family by unraveling God’s natural design for human sexuality. In so doing, they hope to elevate their own spiritual and biological counterfeit and establish a sexually androgynous society wherein natural distinctions between male and female are dissolved.
This creates cultural and moral anarchy.
Plan of Attack:
Ironically, sexual relativists are anything but relative. They are quite affirmative in principle. But the principles they foist demand comprehensive acceptance of homosexual conduct by force of law through federal edicts such as hate crimes legislation, the so-called Employment Non-Discrimination Act (ENDA) and by imposing government sanctioned same-sex marriage. All such government mandates grant special protected minority status to those who define themselves by aberrant sexual preferences and changeable sexual behaviors. These laws put people with traditional values directly in the crosshairs of official government policy.
Throughout society, homosexual activists demand that homosexual behaviors not only be tolerated, but celebrated. (That’s what the euphemistic slogan celebrate diversity supposes). They have masked their true political agenda by hijacking the language of the genuine civil rights movement and through the crafty and disingenuous rhetoric of tolerance and diversity.
Anyone who believes the Biblical directive that human sexuality is a gift from God, to be shared between man and wife within the bonds of marriage, is branded homophobic, hateful or discriminatory. They are to be silenced by all means possible.
Homofascist persecution continue to mount. And they’re by design. Noted homosexual activist and pornographer Clinton Fein addressed the gay agenda in a 2005 article candidly titled,
The Gay Agenda:
• On hate crimes laws: Hate Crime laws are just the beginning. Once those are passed either federally or in all 50 states, begin campaign to eliminate homophobia entirely.
• On hate thoughts and hate speech laws: Homophobic inclinations alone, even without any actions, should be criminal and punishable to the full extent of the law.
• On influencing public policy: Make sure that gay representation permeates every level of governance.
• On same-sex marriage: Demand the institution and then wreck it. James Dobson was right about our evil intentions. We just plan to be quicker than he thought.
• On gays in the Church: Reclaim Jesus. He was a Jewish queer to begin with, and don’t let anyone forget it.
The homosexual lobby’s goals have been clearly defined for decades. But for any goal to be successfully achieved, clever stratagem and sound methodology must be diligently applied.
In their manuscript, After the Ball: How America Will Conquer Its Fear and Hatred of Gays in the 90s (1989, Doubleday/Bantam), Harvard educated marketing experts Marshall Kirk and Hunter Madsen meticulously laid out the homosexual lobby’s blueprint for success in what is widely regarded as the handbook for the gay agenda.
They devised a three-pronged approach that the homosexual lobby has masterfully implemented in subsequent years: Desensitization, Jamming and Conversion.
Kirk and Madsen summarized their approach this way:
• Portray gays as victims, not as aggressive challengers.
• Give potential protectors a just cause.
• Make gays look good.
• Make victimizers look bad.
Desensitization:
Desensitization, wrote Kirk and Madsen, means subjecting the public to a continuous flood of gay-related advertising, presented in the least offensive fashion possible. If straights can’t shut off the shower, they may at least eventually get used to being wet.
As previously stated, glamorizing and normalizing homosexual conduct in our public schools is a full time endeavor. But the schools represent only one field of battle in the war over America’s body, mind and soul.
With the aid of a willing mainstream media and a like-minded Hollywood, societal desensitization has been largely achieved. Blockbusters like Tom Hanks Philadelphia, the late Heath Ledger’s Brokeback Mountain, and television programs like Will and Grace and Ellen represent a modern-day fairy tale, creating a dishonest and sympathetic portrayal of a lifestyle which is emotionally, spiritually and physically sterile.
Reality is replaced with fantasy. Gone are references to, or images of, the millions of homosexual men wasting away in hospice due to behaviorally related diseases such as HIV/AIDS, Hepatitis and Syphilis. (Unnatural behaviors beget natural consequences. As Romans 6:23 says, The wages of sin is death.)
And gone are references to, or images of, men and women trapped in the homosexual lifestyle who aimlessly seek to fill a spiritual and emotional void through promiscuous and meaningless sexual encounters.
The homosexual group, GLAAD, even offers awards to the television networks that most effectively carry the homosexual lobby’s water. The more distorted and positive the portrayal of homosexual conduct and the more frequently the networks shows such portrayals; the more likely networks are to win the coveted awards.
As Kirk and Madsen put it, homosexuals should be portrayed as the Everyman. In no time, they said, a skillful and clever media campaign could have the gay community looking like the veritable fairy godmother to Western Civilization.
Prophetic words from two very smart men.
Jamming:
Jamming refers to the public smearing of Christians, traditionalists or anyone else who opposes the gay agenda. Jam homo-hatred (i.e., disagreement with homosexual behaviors) by linking it to Nazi horror, wrote Kirk and Madsen. Associate all who oppose homosexuality with images of Klansmen demanding that gays be slaughtered, hysterical backwoods preachers, menacing punks, and a tour of Nazi concentration camps where homosexuals were tortured and gassed.
In any campaign to win over the public, gays must be portrayed as victims in need of protection so that straights will be inclined by reflex to adopt the role of protector ... The purpose of victim imagery is to make straights feel very uncomfortable, they suggested.
But, perhaps Kirk and Madsen’s most revealing admission came when they said, [O]ur effect is achieved without reference to facts, logic, or proof.
And so words like homophobe and heterosexism were pulled from thin air, not because they had substance, but because they were effective jamming tools. Anyone who holds traditional values relative to human sexuality suddenly became a homophobe, a hatemonger, a bigot.
Not even churches are safe.
Gays can undermine the moral authority of homo-hating churches over less fervent adherents by portraying [them] as antiquated backwaters, badly out of step with the latest findings of psychology. Against the atavistic tug of Old Time Religion one must set the mightier pull of science and public opinion. Such an unholy alliance has already worked well in America against the churches, on such topics as divorce and abortion. [T]hat alliance can work for gays.
And, oh, how it has.
Conversion:
Conversion means, in the words of Kirk and Madsen, conversion of the average American’s emotions, mind, and will, through a planned psychological attack, in the form of propaganda fed to the nation via the media.
In the early stages of any campaign to reach straight America, the masses should not be shocked and repelled by premature exposure to homosexual behavior itself.
Instead, the imagery of sex should be downplayed and gay rights should be reduced to an abstract social question as much as possible. First let the camel get his nose inside the tent and only later his unsightly derriere!
So, as Kirk and Madsen both astutely understood and surprisingly admitted, homosexual activism is really a big game of hide the ball. In order to achieve widespread acceptance of gayness, they had to remove the focus from what homosexuality really is (deviant sexual conduct) and shift it onto the craftily manufactured specter of gay civil rights.
In order to cut through much of the propagandist sugarcoating, one need only consider what two men must actually do in order to consummate a so-called gay marriage. Kirk and Madsen understood that. Most people are repulsed by the mechanics of homosexual conduct, but everyone is for civil rights. Of course, in reality, the homosexual lifestyle has nothing to do with civil rights and everything to do with conduct.
Therein lies the deception.
But There’s Hope
There’s hope for people who are trapped in the homosexual lifestyle or who suffer from unwanted same-sex attraction.
Gayness is not an immutable or unchangeable condition as homosexual apologists would have you believe. People can find freedom from homosexual behaviors and even from same-sex attractions. It’s not easy, but untold thousands of former homosexuals have done it.
There’s also hope in the ongoing battle between the gay agenda and our national moral integrity.
With God’s help, we can turn back the tide of sexual and moral relativism that has both permeated our society and offended our founding principles.
AWARE On ST’s “Prime News”
AWARE On ST’s “Prime News”
ST dd 07.07.09 (PgA10)
So, what a blaze of “glory” for ST. Very well timed to give AWARE a big boost and even a full page.
AWARE has still not given up and will push the boundaries as per their stated stand. You can see from today’s ST news.
In the first place, they have no business giving the “man” a vote as they are a group created to fight for “Women’s” rights.
In my view, the general public has been hoodwinked all these years. They did not realize that fighting for women’s rights was only the platform and a guise to a bigger issue and that is (a) repealing of Section 377 & 377A (b) to change people’s mindset to embrace the LBGT views.
The time will come soon, when, AWARE will allow male associate members the right to vote. No more “associates” by then. Anybody can join then, but, the first criteria to be used will be that you must “either be pro-gay” or already a gay. Therefore, if you are a woman and don’t belief in their constitution that supports gay rights, then, you as a woman, cannot join up. Sorry-lah, you have to look elsewhere for help.
What is AWARE? It stands for “Association of Women for Action and Research”. Maybe in future, they should take out the “Women” bit.
You can bet that many of the “men” are “gay”. So, no more chance for a takeover. What a washout and a sell-out for women as a whole.
In those early days, who would have figgered that the “inclusive” part in their constitution will be used to get involved in gay issues? Govt and the Public have been “had or suckered”.
Finally, it’s not Josie Lau’s fault that the “money” had to be spent. Given the short time and the constraints and pressure by the Old Guard, it was laughable that the Old Guard now have the temerity to say that Josie’s group should have asked for help from AWARE volunteers. What a big joke. AWARE’s new committee wont “sue” Josie because they have no grounds for it. Period!
Another IMPORTANT thing to point out is that Concerned Parents & People should take note of those Companies involved in supporting the Old Guard. Without these Companies’ monies, the Old Guard will not be able to promote their “Gay” causes. They should extract out a “caveat” from the Old Guard that “donated monies should not be used in support of “Gay” rights”. Those Companies can also be considered in cahoots with the Old Guard for supporting anti-family values. We should voice out our views loud so that these Companies will not help AWARE in furthering their stated goal of supporting anti-family values.
Dear Parents & Supporters of Family Values, can you see what obstacles we have in front of us? Regrettably, if not for my young children and my humble job, I would have started a lobby group myself. People like us still have some ways to go to be free of the shackle to carry the banner. What of you who are retired and still strong in mind and spirit and free? Is there any amongst you who would take up this challenge. I will not think twice and be the first to be a member.
ST dd 07.07.09 (PgA10)
So, what a blaze of “glory” for ST. Very well timed to give AWARE a big boost and even a full page.
AWARE has still not given up and will push the boundaries as per their stated stand. You can see from today’s ST news.
In the first place, they have no business giving the “man” a vote as they are a group created to fight for “Women’s” rights.
In my view, the general public has been hoodwinked all these years. They did not realize that fighting for women’s rights was only the platform and a guise to a bigger issue and that is (a) repealing of Section 377 & 377A (b) to change people’s mindset to embrace the LBGT views.
The time will come soon, when, AWARE will allow male associate members the right to vote. No more “associates” by then. Anybody can join then, but, the first criteria to be used will be that you must “either be pro-gay” or already a gay. Therefore, if you are a woman and don’t belief in their constitution that supports gay rights, then, you as a woman, cannot join up. Sorry-lah, you have to look elsewhere for help.
What is AWARE? It stands for “Association of Women for Action and Research”. Maybe in future, they should take out the “Women” bit.
You can bet that many of the “men” are “gay”. So, no more chance for a takeover. What a washout and a sell-out for women as a whole.
In those early days, who would have figgered that the “inclusive” part in their constitution will be used to get involved in gay issues? Govt and the Public have been “had or suckered”.
Finally, it’s not Josie Lau’s fault that the “money” had to be spent. Given the short time and the constraints and pressure by the Old Guard, it was laughable that the Old Guard now have the temerity to say that Josie’s group should have asked for help from AWARE volunteers. What a big joke. AWARE’s new committee wont “sue” Josie because they have no grounds for it. Period!
Another IMPORTANT thing to point out is that Concerned Parents & People should take note of those Companies involved in supporting the Old Guard. Without these Companies’ monies, the Old Guard will not be able to promote their “Gay” causes. They should extract out a “caveat” from the Old Guard that “donated monies should not be used in support of “Gay” rights”. Those Companies can also be considered in cahoots with the Old Guard for supporting anti-family values. We should voice out our views loud so that these Companies will not help AWARE in furthering their stated goal of supporting anti-family values.
Dear Parents & Supporters of Family Values, can you see what obstacles we have in front of us? Regrettably, if not for my young children and my humble job, I would have started a lobby group myself. People like us still have some ways to go to be free of the shackle to carry the banner. What of you who are retired and still strong in mind and spirit and free? Is there any amongst you who would take up this challenge. I will not think twice and be the first to be a member.
Nine New Faces In Parliament
Image by willposh via Flickr
It is refreshing to see new faces in parliament and to openly state their intentions upon taking up the NMP posts.
Pushing for change was one of the reasons Govt has introduced this new lot to add a different dimension in terms of diversity of views. This is laudable of Govt.
The worry of having another Siew Kum Hong in their midst to stir up another controversy is still relevant.
My opinion is that it is not wrong to stir up another controversy which is good for society at large so long as it does not involve anti-family issues. Controversy helps to facilitate changes in society.
The remark by SMU Law lecturer Eugene Tan, taken from today’s ST dated 07.07.09 that SKH “brings something different to the table” is a fair description of what Govt is doing as Ex-NMP Banerjee said, quote ”After all, the NMP scheme seeks to provide diversity and different perspectives in Parliament” unquote.
But, Eugene Tan should realize that ‘SKH did more than that by “stirring” up the public with the LBGT issues and with his open support of the AWARE old guard’, and did not see the bigger picture where SKH’s activities and association with a pro-gay movement caused much duress to the public at large and a danger to society’s moral setup.
You cant tell the public that ‘he was at AWARE’s EGM in his personal capacity’ since he was the one who raised the issue of LBGT rights. Being an NMP also required of him to be impartial. You cant hide your actions behind the cloak of “personal capacity”.
Hopefully, the Art’s nominee, Audrey Wong will “walk the talk” by raising only issues facing the Arts scene vis-a-vis the public & Govt. She has kept a low profile and there’s really much material on her on the internet. Mostly all work related. As long as she does not end up as “the other” side of SKH, her motives are for the promotion of the Arts to the people, then, the general public will welcome her. We’ll just have to wait and see.
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New NMPs In Parliament
Silent Majority
07 Jul 09 , 11:44 AM
Agree with "A brand new slate of NMPs in the House"
Happy are those who belief.
On the other hand, having read Audrey Wong's position in the news, she highlighted her stand on issues facing the Arts scene. I hope she is the real deal where promotion of the Arts vis-a-vis society & Govt is involved and not end up as another Siew Kum Hong espousing anti-family values.
07 Jul 09 , 11:44 AM
Agree with "A brand new slate of NMPs in the House"
Happy are those who belief.
On the other hand, having read Audrey Wong's position in the news, she highlighted her stand on issues facing the Arts scene. I hope she is the real deal where promotion of the Arts vis-a-vis society & Govt is involved and not end up as another Siew Kum Hong espousing anti-family values.
Newly Elected NMPs - A brand new slate of NMPs in the House
REACH Blog:
07 Jul 09 , 10:40 AM
http://www.todayonline.com/Singapore/EDC090707-0000120/A-brand-new-slate
IT WILL be a slate of completely new faces in the House, all nine of them - the maximum number of Nominated Members of Parliament (NMPs) allowed by the Constitution. But you might recognise a few familiar names
One surprise is former national swimmer and Olympian Joscelin Yeo, who makes the move from pool to politics; She views being an NMP as an extension of the work she is doing at the swimming school she runs with her brother and with the Youth Ministry of New Creation Church.
Mr Laurence Wee is the executive director of Presbyterian Community Services.
Conspicuous by their absence? Any of the former slate of NMPs - including Mr Siew Kum Hong whom had sought second terms.
------
Loretta Chen and Beatrice Chia were not shortlisted either.
Thanks for the wise decision of Parliamentary Select Committee in shortlisting NMPs that reflects the majority view of Singaporean who prefer upholding family values.
07 Jul 09 , 10:40 AM
http://www.todayonline.com/Singapore/EDC090707-0000120/A-brand-new-slate
IT WILL be a slate of completely new faces in the House, all nine of them - the maximum number of Nominated Members of Parliament (NMPs) allowed by the Constitution. But you might recognise a few familiar names
One surprise is former national swimmer and Olympian Joscelin Yeo, who makes the move from pool to politics; She views being an NMP as an extension of the work she is doing at the swimming school she runs with her brother and with the Youth Ministry of New Creation Church.
Mr Laurence Wee is the executive director of Presbyterian Community Services.
Conspicuous by their absence? Any of the former slate of NMPs - including Mr Siew Kum Hong whom had sought second terms.
------
Loretta Chen and Beatrice Chia were not shortlisted either.
Thanks for the wise decision of Parliamentary Select Committee in shortlisting NMPs that reflects the majority view of Singaporean who prefer upholding family values.
Monday, July 6, 2009
Latest Comments On Sex Education Thread
REACH BLOG:
(Some general debates on-going)
Red Panda
05 Jul 09 , 21:56 PM
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/440540/1/.html
Law Minister K Shanmugam has said:
- Singapore will not decriminalise gay sex but the courts have the power to decide how the law, Section 377, is applied. Section 377A of the Penal Code deems sex between men a crime.
- Section 377 will remain as homosexuality is still not accepted by most Singaporeans.
- We have the law. We say it won't be enforced. Is it totally clear? .... we don't think it's fair for us to prosecute people who say that they are homosexual
- the government will not take the lead in repealing the law.
----------
The government stand is firm, clear and fair to both mainstreams and GLBT. Homosexuals have freedom to do it in their bedroom, but pushing their lifestyle to be accepted by mainstream majorities is a BIG NO.
----------------------------------------------------------
Silent Majority
05 Jul 09 , 18:24 PM
Dear CW
Just in case, my last sentence "If you still don’t get it, I have no more words for you other than there is a “block” in you" is not a personal attack, given the limited time I have.
Let me rephrase it better, "If you still dont catch the drift on our point of view, then, no matter how else we explanation the result will still be the same.
Regards
---------------------------------------------------------------
CW
05 Jul 09 , 18:09 PM
Dear Silent Majority,
I can now clearly understand where you are coming from. I also understand that this is your approach/style when communicating to others. I do appreciate the effort and time you took to detail your reply. In all, thank you.
Regards,
CW
-----------------------------------------------------------
Silent Majority
05 Jul 09 , 15:32 PM
Dear CW,
Whatever comments made on my part is never personal. I am not a demon. Ha!Ha! It is always with the intent to communicate a point and effectively. That is my style. I am thoughtful when I jot down my comments. So, don’t get overly excited when in a debate. Like I said, this is an open forum and some have they own way in conveying their stand for effect.
You are spot on in your opinion from your various past comments. The thing you do not realize is that, there is no 100% proof. We are not God and so no proof. That is why if you had understood all the previous input from other forumers, you would by now have gathered that the forumers have always “accepted” the LBGT as an individual and do not judge them or try to change them “forcefully”. That is why we have gay friends. But, in terms of society “acceptance” does not mean “agree” with their lifestyle but not with their “kind”.
But, we are talking about gays as “adults”. It is still the parent’s right to decide, guide and make the decision whether his/her son/daughter is a gay or not and how to confront the issue.
I have known close childhood friends who were very feminine but grew out of it in adulthood. I have also known close childhood friends who are feminine and turned gay in their late teens and one of them even changed his name and took his boyfriend’s surname. Do you know why I quoted these experiences of mine to you? The reason being these two individuals were influenced by the environment they live in. When I talk about environment, it would mean such as the people you are in contact with: your family, friends you hang out with, location, etc. Mostly, it’s your family and friends. A good example: If you are the youngest and you have 4-5 elder sisters and the strict parents who are generally at arms length away? How do you think the boy will turn out? He will come out with feminine traits, mostly. I haven’t even added in the outside influences. These forces act, mould and influences a child’s mind and what do you think will be the outcome at the end of the day? I don’t need a scientist to proof to me. You are dealing with an individual and you handle them differently when as a child, teenager and as an adult. If you are 3 or 5 years old or even 12 years old, if I were to let you live on the floor daily for the next 5 years, your body and mind will automatically learn to accept it. One thing you have to know, presently, science, it’s a tool in the hands of either sides now to be used to bolster their arguments. The thing with scientific studies is that if you leave out a factor/equation, then, the rest of your studies and it’s outcome is just “rubbish”.
Above were “live” experiences that I quoted. Therefore, no need for scientific studies. Commonsense and logic is the word here. I have quoted you examples from my personal experiences. You can ask for proof until the sun goes down and you will still not get it. Another slightly similar example to quote: If you are kidnapped for long periods under abject conditions deliberately, you will even fall for your kidnapper and die for him probably.
From these examples, I left out something important for last. If you were to play these examples in your mind you will realize that, at the end of the day, the individual can still change. In the end, we are talking about “concepts”. How do you define “concepts”: how a person or culture behaves, or how nature, reality, or events are perceived? This tells you a person CAN change. It’s HOW much he/she wants to change. Sometimes when they go through willing a program of self-help, they might or might not succeed in changing their lifestyle because (a) it’s up to them (b) the environment they go back to. It’s a forum column so I can’t elaborate further as there’s more, but, enough has been said to derive the required answers.
FYI let me go back to “anal sex” where an adult should know better than to engage in such acts. Is it instinct or ingrained in us that it is wrong? Why is that so? It’s because we were taught that it is wrong and the anus is not made for sex but for excretion.
Suicidal behavior is due to the environment we live in; you may call it “society”. I fully agree that they need help, as do kidnapped victims. That is why I myself belief that after the parents, school counselors or any other organizations should help out but, this is only a temporary respite. Because, when in later life, they will have to come face to face with the stark reality that the world will not “agree” but only accept their choice of lifestyle. Let me remind you, I did not say anything about “force”.
The problem with our society in Singapore now is that the activism by vocal minority groups and individuals are trying to push and influence our young’s mindset. That is a No-No. Even Govt has accepted the gay as a person into their midst. What have you to say about that? Nobody is forcing change on them. PAP youth even accepted one or more of them too.
Probably LEE was being too polite to tell you straight what he/she felt, from his/ her replies to you. I have no such qualms. I prefer to engage directly and face the issue outright, even enforcing my point of view if I felt my logic/arguments justifiable and/or sound.
Nobody is forcing a lifestyle change on them. As Asians, we even accept them into our midst, as family, as friends, etc. A good example is Thailand. But, do you think the parent/s agree with their lifestyle? It’s like the Chinese say, “Bo pian”
The final conclusion is that they can change but, it’s how much they want it.
The ACTIVISTS and HARDCORE amongst them are not helping them poor individuals by they militancy, collective peer pressure tactics and deliberate one-sided arguments/ talks/ teachings such as from AWARE & it’s CSE programs. It’s their promotion of their lifestyle and trying to make it stick onto the individual by saying to them that they cannot and really cannot change. Society is not the problem; it’s their minority amongst them that are the problem and the stumbling block for a 2nd chance or maybe a “chance” to “try” for a different lifestyle.
If you still don’t get it, I have no more words for you other than there is a “block” in you.
Regards
----------------------------------------------------------
CW
05 Jul 09 , 06:23 AM
Dear All,
I recently stated I would not be participating anymore. However, I posted a reply regardless of this. I writing to hopefully nip any thoughts that I am a fool for saying one thing and doing another. I don't want to faulted. I posted because I wanted to share a thought. I could have ignored and left it as it is, but I needed to throw this out there. I don't think it did harm.
In any case, I will be less vocal and eventually exiting this thread. Part of it was because of the unpleasant episode, the other was the exhaustion. I wish to leave (soon) on much more respectful note. Therefore, I want to express my gratitude for at least engaging me and my apologies for my own less-than-outstanding replies. Thank you for giving me the time.
Regards,
CW
----------------------------------------------------------
CW
05 Jul 09 , 05:59 AM
Why do I set this rule? It’s simple. These are people’s lives and we should never go on hunches or internal beliefs. Many in general note individuals, who may identify themselves as homosexuals, are more at-risk to suicidal attempts or other wayward items such as drug abuse.
That is why LEE and I were able to easily come to an agreement on this that both options should be presented to the conflicted individual. If he/she chooses to change, we should have the necessary support systems and encouragement to help him make the change. If he/she chooses to remain homosexual, then we should provide counsel where necessary to help himself/herself have a safe and meaningful life. Regardless of the choice, parents must play an integrated role in the decision-making process.
To that end, if the nurture/environment viewpoint is your personal belief and your preferred method to protect your children from homosexual influences, I will unreservedly respect it.
I will respectfully object if anyone makes the choice to forcefully impose a single option on others. If the day comes that the proof is nurture, I will be on the side to change the environment. Till then, we must learn to respect the differences as well as the boundaries.
Dear Silent Majority, this is only a thought to share. If this is a difference of opinion, I hope we can let it be.
Regards,
CW
-----------------------------------------------------------
CW
05 Jul 09 , 05:58 AM
Dear Silent Majority,
I read your reply, partly out of guilt and part out of curiosity. Your latest reply was pleasant compared to your previous one. I therefore wish to offer my apology on being emotional in my previous post.
I have read your points, and generally have no objections to what you said. On point d, I wish to I impart something which I spoke to LEE before.
To any probable homosexual, both options should be presented to the individual. One, should be the option of change, and the other, the option to remain. Let me explain.
I will tell (and will continue to tell) any LGBT who believes their traits were in-born to show me the proof. By proof, I mean hard science and proven facts. Not experiences or statistics.
To be fair, I will ask anyone, including you, to show me the proof that homosexuals result from nurture or environment. I will still set the same standard for proof as I demand it from the LGBTs.
---------------------------------------------------------
Silent Majority
05 Jul 09 , 01:20 AM
Dear CW
I do not know if you’ll be reading it and yet I do know that this has to be written, if not for you, then, for the benefit of others. Whether I was over-reacting or not to your replies to “LEE” is now moot. It was not against you as a person. May I offer my apologies if it adversely affected your well-being. After all has been said, I see that you have still not understood our point of view. I, like most parents and concerned people, are not insensitive or unreasoning people where the LBGT individuals are concerned. The unveiling of AWARE’s CSE program made us realize what a precarious precipice we are standing on. I count some gays as amongst my many friends and we get along very fine.
Our views are very simple:-
a) LBGT shouldn’t seek to impose their views on others:
As PM said, the harder you push, the worse the backlash. Blame the minority amongst the LBGT who are vocal, activists, well organized, highly educated, variously ensconced in public media, Arts groupings, NGOs, etc, taking every opportunity to push their agendas into our majority passivistic throats. They even have a lobby group amongst them.
b) Being LBGT is the individual’s choice:
But, parents, have always had a say in their child’s upbringing. Similarly, the activists should not try to use our educational systems to covertly imbue LBGT views on our children hoping that our young will carry it over into adulthood. That’s really mind-blowing. Can you even comprehend what AWARE tried to do? To change whole generations of our children’s mindset about LBGT from within our educational system. That’s nasty!
c) Homosexual activities:
How do we differentiate ourselves from other living forms? We have a thinking brain, moral ethics, we defecate through the anus. This is the general understanding.
d) A person born feminine does not mean he is outright a gay. The environment at home & outside plays a major part in your life. If you continuously mix with gays, then, your tendencies become more pronounced towards being a gay. But, it does not make you one permanently. Take that environment away and you’ll be able to change under proper guidance and support. Unfortunately, it’s those gay die-hards from bitter backgrounds and/or westernized, that wants to stay different and seeks to expand their kind freely.
e) Asian society is mostly accepting of them but “agreeing” is different from “accepting”. What we are seeing now are western ideals being imposed on us using the mantra “freedom” and “human rights”.
My two cents worth!
Regards
-------------------------------------------------------------------
CW
04 Jul 09 , 18:20 PM
To LEE,
I can’t really comprehend what happened but I’m sorry as I have to end my participation in this thread. If I do see you in other debates, maybe about GST or NS, I would probably participate or at least say Hi. Thank you very much for engaging me earlier and for your time. I truly enjoyed debating with you. Please do not reply to my earlier posts as I won’t be responding.
Regards,
CW
------------------------------------------------------------------
CW
04 Jul 09 , 18:17 PM
..contd...
I know this reply is not worthy because it holds alot of emotions. That's why I want to drop out, it takes too much out of me. Silent Majority, I apologise for the reply, but as you said: who is to say one is being civil or uncivil.
With Apologies,
CW
--------------------------------------------------------------------
CW
04 Jul 09 , 18:14 PM
Dear Silent Majority,
We have to put an end to this bicker between us. I have always stated my intention was to understand where you guys were coming from. I believe I did declare this in my first post to LEE from the “Objectivity” thread. My purpose of coming to this thread was to seek a reply from LEE after the “Objectivity” thread closed. I got it and I replied back to him. I was not expecting someone else to reply on a post not directed to them.
I, based on my feelings, felt your 7 pages was more an attempt to cast me as a “wolf in sheeps clothing”, and thereby discredit me. I was offended by this. You used terms such as “you and AWARE” in your reply and suggested I had views that was pro-LGBT even though I don’t associate with them. This form of a reply were not counter-arguments, they more an attempt to discredit the person who were suggesting the arguments. I did not understand why you brought incest into the picture as I never suggested it. If your reference to incest was because my argument related to the rights of adults, then please go ahead and support a ban on pre-marital sex, sex other than the purpose of procreation, homosexuality, drinking, smoking, abortion, 4D, toto, women's dress code, death penalty and whatever else you feel is immorally wrong that you wish to impose on other adults.
Your recent reply suggested a very important thing:
“One may be wrong but an opinion is an opinion and who is to say one is being civil or not civil.”
I cannot rebut this because it is very true. It’s only sad you applied it to defend your actions. To that end, I withdraw myself from this debate. I can no longer see whether individuals such as yourself are truly interested in debating and whether you are any different from the pro-LGBT activists. Just like them, you too seem more interested in rejecting anyone who espouses a different view and wish to lobby people for your own causes, regardless of the implications.
I know this reply is not worthy
(Some general debates on-going)
Red Panda
05 Jul 09 , 21:56 PM
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/440540/1/.html
Law Minister K Shanmugam has said:
- Singapore will not decriminalise gay sex but the courts have the power to decide how the law, Section 377, is applied. Section 377A of the Penal Code deems sex between men a crime.
- Section 377 will remain as homosexuality is still not accepted by most Singaporeans.
- We have the law. We say it won't be enforced. Is it totally clear? .... we don't think it's fair for us to prosecute people who say that they are homosexual
- the government will not take the lead in repealing the law.
----------
The government stand is firm, clear and fair to both mainstreams and GLBT. Homosexuals have freedom to do it in their bedroom, but pushing their lifestyle to be accepted by mainstream majorities is a BIG NO.
----------------------------------------------------------
Silent Majority
05 Jul 09 , 18:24 PM
Dear CW
Just in case, my last sentence "If you still don’t get it, I have no more words for you other than there is a “block” in you" is not a personal attack, given the limited time I have.
Let me rephrase it better, "If you still dont catch the drift on our point of view, then, no matter how else we explanation the result will still be the same.
Regards
---------------------------------------------------------------
CW
05 Jul 09 , 18:09 PM
Dear Silent Majority,
I can now clearly understand where you are coming from. I also understand that this is your approach/style when communicating to others. I do appreciate the effort and time you took to detail your reply. In all, thank you.
Regards,
CW
-----------------------------------------------------------
Silent Majority
05 Jul 09 , 15:32 PM
Dear CW,
Whatever comments made on my part is never personal. I am not a demon. Ha!Ha! It is always with the intent to communicate a point and effectively. That is my style. I am thoughtful when I jot down my comments. So, don’t get overly excited when in a debate. Like I said, this is an open forum and some have they own way in conveying their stand for effect.
You are spot on in your opinion from your various past comments. The thing you do not realize is that, there is no 100% proof. We are not God and so no proof. That is why if you had understood all the previous input from other forumers, you would by now have gathered that the forumers have always “accepted” the LBGT as an individual and do not judge them or try to change them “forcefully”. That is why we have gay friends. But, in terms of society “acceptance” does not mean “agree” with their lifestyle but not with their “kind”.
But, we are talking about gays as “adults”. It is still the parent’s right to decide, guide and make the decision whether his/her son/daughter is a gay or not and how to confront the issue.
I have known close childhood friends who were very feminine but grew out of it in adulthood. I have also known close childhood friends who are feminine and turned gay in their late teens and one of them even changed his name and took his boyfriend’s surname. Do you know why I quoted these experiences of mine to you? The reason being these two individuals were influenced by the environment they live in. When I talk about environment, it would mean such as the people you are in contact with: your family, friends you hang out with, location, etc. Mostly, it’s your family and friends. A good example: If you are the youngest and you have 4-5 elder sisters and the strict parents who are generally at arms length away? How do you think the boy will turn out? He will come out with feminine traits, mostly. I haven’t even added in the outside influences. These forces act, mould and influences a child’s mind and what do you think will be the outcome at the end of the day? I don’t need a scientist to proof to me. You are dealing with an individual and you handle them differently when as a child, teenager and as an adult. If you are 3 or 5 years old or even 12 years old, if I were to let you live on the floor daily for the next 5 years, your body and mind will automatically learn to accept it. One thing you have to know, presently, science, it’s a tool in the hands of either sides now to be used to bolster their arguments. The thing with scientific studies is that if you leave out a factor/equation, then, the rest of your studies and it’s outcome is just “rubbish”.
Above were “live” experiences that I quoted. Therefore, no need for scientific studies. Commonsense and logic is the word here. I have quoted you examples from my personal experiences. You can ask for proof until the sun goes down and you will still not get it. Another slightly similar example to quote: If you are kidnapped for long periods under abject conditions deliberately, you will even fall for your kidnapper and die for him probably.
From these examples, I left out something important for last. If you were to play these examples in your mind you will realize that, at the end of the day, the individual can still change. In the end, we are talking about “concepts”. How do you define “concepts”: how a person or culture behaves, or how nature, reality, or events are perceived? This tells you a person CAN change. It’s HOW much he/she wants to change. Sometimes when they go through willing a program of self-help, they might or might not succeed in changing their lifestyle because (a) it’s up to them (b) the environment they go back to. It’s a forum column so I can’t elaborate further as there’s more, but, enough has been said to derive the required answers.
FYI let me go back to “anal sex” where an adult should know better than to engage in such acts. Is it instinct or ingrained in us that it is wrong? Why is that so? It’s because we were taught that it is wrong and the anus is not made for sex but for excretion.
Suicidal behavior is due to the environment we live in; you may call it “society”. I fully agree that they need help, as do kidnapped victims. That is why I myself belief that after the parents, school counselors or any other organizations should help out but, this is only a temporary respite. Because, when in later life, they will have to come face to face with the stark reality that the world will not “agree” but only accept their choice of lifestyle. Let me remind you, I did not say anything about “force”.
The problem with our society in Singapore now is that the activism by vocal minority groups and individuals are trying to push and influence our young’s mindset. That is a No-No. Even Govt has accepted the gay as a person into their midst. What have you to say about that? Nobody is forcing change on them. PAP youth even accepted one or more of them too.
Probably LEE was being too polite to tell you straight what he/she felt, from his/ her replies to you. I have no such qualms. I prefer to engage directly and face the issue outright, even enforcing my point of view if I felt my logic/arguments justifiable and/or sound.
Nobody is forcing a lifestyle change on them. As Asians, we even accept them into our midst, as family, as friends, etc. A good example is Thailand. But, do you think the parent/s agree with their lifestyle? It’s like the Chinese say, “Bo pian”
The final conclusion is that they can change but, it’s how much they want it.
The ACTIVISTS and HARDCORE amongst them are not helping them poor individuals by they militancy, collective peer pressure tactics and deliberate one-sided arguments/ talks/ teachings such as from AWARE & it’s CSE programs. It’s their promotion of their lifestyle and trying to make it stick onto the individual by saying to them that they cannot and really cannot change. Society is not the problem; it’s their minority amongst them that are the problem and the stumbling block for a 2nd chance or maybe a “chance” to “try” for a different lifestyle.
If you still don’t get it, I have no more words for you other than there is a “block” in you.
Regards
----------------------------------------------------------
CW
05 Jul 09 , 06:23 AM
Dear All,
I recently stated I would not be participating anymore. However, I posted a reply regardless of this. I writing to hopefully nip any thoughts that I am a fool for saying one thing and doing another. I don't want to faulted. I posted because I wanted to share a thought. I could have ignored and left it as it is, but I needed to throw this out there. I don't think it did harm.
In any case, I will be less vocal and eventually exiting this thread. Part of it was because of the unpleasant episode, the other was the exhaustion. I wish to leave (soon) on much more respectful note. Therefore, I want to express my gratitude for at least engaging me and my apologies for my own less-than-outstanding replies. Thank you for giving me the time.
Regards,
CW
----------------------------------------------------------
CW
05 Jul 09 , 05:59 AM
Why do I set this rule? It’s simple. These are people’s lives and we should never go on hunches or internal beliefs. Many in general note individuals, who may identify themselves as homosexuals, are more at-risk to suicidal attempts or other wayward items such as drug abuse.
That is why LEE and I were able to easily come to an agreement on this that both options should be presented to the conflicted individual. If he/she chooses to change, we should have the necessary support systems and encouragement to help him make the change. If he/she chooses to remain homosexual, then we should provide counsel where necessary to help himself/herself have a safe and meaningful life. Regardless of the choice, parents must play an integrated role in the decision-making process.
To that end, if the nurture/environment viewpoint is your personal belief and your preferred method to protect your children from homosexual influences, I will unreservedly respect it.
I will respectfully object if anyone makes the choice to forcefully impose a single option on others. If the day comes that the proof is nurture, I will be on the side to change the environment. Till then, we must learn to respect the differences as well as the boundaries.
Dear Silent Majority, this is only a thought to share. If this is a difference of opinion, I hope we can let it be.
Regards,
CW
-----------------------------------------------------------
CW
05 Jul 09 , 05:58 AM
Dear Silent Majority,
I read your reply, partly out of guilt and part out of curiosity. Your latest reply was pleasant compared to your previous one. I therefore wish to offer my apology on being emotional in my previous post.
I have read your points, and generally have no objections to what you said. On point d, I wish to I impart something which I spoke to LEE before.
To any probable homosexual, both options should be presented to the individual. One, should be the option of change, and the other, the option to remain. Let me explain.
I will tell (and will continue to tell) any LGBT who believes their traits were in-born to show me the proof. By proof, I mean hard science and proven facts. Not experiences or statistics.
To be fair, I will ask anyone, including you, to show me the proof that homosexuals result from nurture or environment. I will still set the same standard for proof as I demand it from the LGBTs.
---------------------------------------------------------
Silent Majority
05 Jul 09 , 01:20 AM
Dear CW
I do not know if you’ll be reading it and yet I do know that this has to be written, if not for you, then, for the benefit of others. Whether I was over-reacting or not to your replies to “LEE” is now moot. It was not against you as a person. May I offer my apologies if it adversely affected your well-being. After all has been said, I see that you have still not understood our point of view. I, like most parents and concerned people, are not insensitive or unreasoning people where the LBGT individuals are concerned. The unveiling of AWARE’s CSE program made us realize what a precarious precipice we are standing on. I count some gays as amongst my many friends and we get along very fine.
Our views are very simple:-
a) LBGT shouldn’t seek to impose their views on others:
As PM said, the harder you push, the worse the backlash. Blame the minority amongst the LBGT who are vocal, activists, well organized, highly educated, variously ensconced in public media, Arts groupings, NGOs, etc, taking every opportunity to push their agendas into our majority passivistic throats. They even have a lobby group amongst them.
b) Being LBGT is the individual’s choice:
But, parents, have always had a say in their child’s upbringing. Similarly, the activists should not try to use our educational systems to covertly imbue LBGT views on our children hoping that our young will carry it over into adulthood. That’s really mind-blowing. Can you even comprehend what AWARE tried to do? To change whole generations of our children’s mindset about LBGT from within our educational system. That’s nasty!
c) Homosexual activities:
How do we differentiate ourselves from other living forms? We have a thinking brain, moral ethics, we defecate through the anus. This is the general understanding.
d) A person born feminine does not mean he is outright a gay. The environment at home & outside plays a major part in your life. If you continuously mix with gays, then, your tendencies become more pronounced towards being a gay. But, it does not make you one permanently. Take that environment away and you’ll be able to change under proper guidance and support. Unfortunately, it’s those gay die-hards from bitter backgrounds and/or westernized, that wants to stay different and seeks to expand their kind freely.
e) Asian society is mostly accepting of them but “agreeing” is different from “accepting”. What we are seeing now are western ideals being imposed on us using the mantra “freedom” and “human rights”.
My two cents worth!
Regards
-------------------------------------------------------------------
CW
04 Jul 09 , 18:20 PM
To LEE,
I can’t really comprehend what happened but I’m sorry as I have to end my participation in this thread. If I do see you in other debates, maybe about GST or NS, I would probably participate or at least say Hi. Thank you very much for engaging me earlier and for your time. I truly enjoyed debating with you. Please do not reply to my earlier posts as I won’t be responding.
Regards,
CW
------------------------------------------------------------------
CW
04 Jul 09 , 18:17 PM
..contd...
I know this reply is not worthy because it holds alot of emotions. That's why I want to drop out, it takes too much out of me. Silent Majority, I apologise for the reply, but as you said: who is to say one is being civil or uncivil.
With Apologies,
CW
--------------------------------------------------------------------
CW
04 Jul 09 , 18:14 PM
Dear Silent Majority,
We have to put an end to this bicker between us. I have always stated my intention was to understand where you guys were coming from. I believe I did declare this in my first post to LEE from the “Objectivity” thread. My purpose of coming to this thread was to seek a reply from LEE after the “Objectivity” thread closed. I got it and I replied back to him. I was not expecting someone else to reply on a post not directed to them.
I, based on my feelings, felt your 7 pages was more an attempt to cast me as a “wolf in sheeps clothing”, and thereby discredit me. I was offended by this. You used terms such as “you and AWARE” in your reply and suggested I had views that was pro-LGBT even though I don’t associate with them. This form of a reply were not counter-arguments, they more an attempt to discredit the person who were suggesting the arguments. I did not understand why you brought incest into the picture as I never suggested it. If your reference to incest was because my argument related to the rights of adults, then please go ahead and support a ban on pre-marital sex, sex other than the purpose of procreation, homosexuality, drinking, smoking, abortion, 4D, toto, women's dress code, death penalty and whatever else you feel is immorally wrong that you wish to impose on other adults.
Your recent reply suggested a very important thing:
“One may be wrong but an opinion is an opinion and who is to say one is being civil or not civil.”
I cannot rebut this because it is very true. It’s only sad you applied it to defend your actions. To that end, I withdraw myself from this debate. I can no longer see whether individuals such as yourself are truly interested in debating and whether you are any different from the pro-LGBT activists. Just like them, you too seem more interested in rejecting anyone who espouses a different view and wish to lobby people for your own causes, regardless of the implications.
I know this reply is not worthy
Too Concerned to Remain Silent anymore!
REACH BLOG:
05 Jun 09 , 23:42 PM
Thank you to [Details removed] and "Letters to ministers"!
It is indeed reassuring and comforting for us parents to know that there are people like yourself that take up our conservative cause and write to the relevant ministries and people in charged.
We are grateful to you and wish to thank you immensely for your concerns, efforts and well written letters. Thank you for posting your letters here.
Also thank you for highlighting this:-
"Dear Mr Han,
I need to raise two issues with you.
First, you asked our Education Ministry "Don't sacrifice sex education" (ST Editorial, May 8) when they announced that all externally generated sex education was suspended. Among many things, you hoped that after the ministry's vetting exercise, they will continue "to draw on the support of...Aware and Singapore Planned Parenthood Association (SPPA), in expanding the scope of sex education" because they offer useful perspectives and expertise. Both these organizations are generally perceived as good because they seek to improve the welfare of women, but before you make such recommendations, you need to understand the organizations' intentions (visions and mission) by appreciating their history.
SPPA is part of the International PPA, which in turn has its roots in the Planned Parenthood Federation of America (PPFA). PPFA is founded in 1916 by Margaret Sanger, who is well known for her strong racist and discriminatory advocacy (http://www.dianedew.com/sanger.htm). Like AWARE, PPFA is an advocate for women's rights but unlike AWARE, their roots and their programs are not pure; they being the largest abortion provider in the USA. For all the good PPFA does, their problem is that they are inconsistent in their views of human sexuality; their problem is that they are inconsistent in their views of human sexuality; their actions show that 'some people matter some of the time' as opposed to 'all people matter all of the time'. Without seeing their program or instructor's guide, I will be very wary of their teachings on sexuality.
If AWARE and SPPA seeks to promote feminism comprehensively, it must be within the context of healthy lifestyles, marriage institution and family unit. You would like to know that no where in AWARE's Comprehensive Sexual Education Instructors Guide v.3 was marriage mentioned (except in an example where marriage was coerced), and thus their sexuality program can hardly be considered comprehensive."
We do Not want Aware or Singapore Planned Parenthood Association (SPPA) to teach our children and minors CSE programmes, irrespective of whether their revised instructor's manual is deemed suitable or not.
We simply do not trust these two vendors.
I know that Focus on the Family is good and Fei Yue too.
So parents, please write in to MOE or the Feedback section here on the REACH Home page to voice our disapproval for Aware and Singapore Planned Parenthood Association (SPPA).
Thank you and appreciate!
05 Jun 09 , 23:42 PM
Thank you to [Details removed] and "Letters to ministers"!
It is indeed reassuring and comforting for us parents to know that there are people like yourself that take up our conservative cause and write to the relevant ministries and people in charged.
We are grateful to you and wish to thank you immensely for your concerns, efforts and well written letters. Thank you for posting your letters here.
Also thank you for highlighting this:-
"Dear Mr Han,
I need to raise two issues with you.
First, you asked our Education Ministry "Don't sacrifice sex education" (ST Editorial, May 8) when they announced that all externally generated sex education was suspended. Among many things, you hoped that after the ministry's vetting exercise, they will continue "to draw on the support of...Aware and Singapore Planned Parenthood Association (SPPA), in expanding the scope of sex education" because they offer useful perspectives and expertise. Both these organizations are generally perceived as good because they seek to improve the welfare of women, but before you make such recommendations, you need to understand the organizations' intentions (visions and mission) by appreciating their history.
SPPA is part of the International PPA, which in turn has its roots in the Planned Parenthood Federation of America (PPFA). PPFA is founded in 1916 by Margaret Sanger, who is well known for her strong racist and discriminatory advocacy (http://www.dianedew.com/sanger.htm). Like AWARE, PPFA is an advocate for women's rights but unlike AWARE, their roots and their programs are not pure; they being the largest abortion provider in the USA. For all the good PPFA does, their problem is that they are inconsistent in their views of human sexuality; their problem is that they are inconsistent in their views of human sexuality; their actions show that 'some people matter some of the time' as opposed to 'all people matter all of the time'. Without seeing their program or instructor's guide, I will be very wary of their teachings on sexuality.
If AWARE and SPPA seeks to promote feminism comprehensively, it must be within the context of healthy lifestyles, marriage institution and family unit. You would like to know that no where in AWARE's Comprehensive Sexual Education Instructors Guide v.3 was marriage mentioned (except in an example where marriage was coerced), and thus their sexuality program can hardly be considered comprehensive."
We do Not want Aware or Singapore Planned Parenthood Association (SPPA) to teach our children and minors CSE programmes, irrespective of whether their revised instructor's manual is deemed suitable or not.
We simply do not trust these two vendors.
I know that Focus on the Family is good and Fei Yue too.
So parents, please write in to MOE or the Feedback section here on the REACH Home page to voice our disapproval for Aware and Singapore Planned Parenthood Association (SPPA).
Thank you and appreciate!
A LESSON FROM THE FROG
REACH BLOG:
03 Jun 09 , 11:57 AM
I have to copy this here from "Come, Let Us Reason". Very Good!
A Lesson from The Frog
If a frog were to be thrown into a pot of boiling water, it would propel itself out of the boiling water instantaneously, or it would have been killed in no time. If the same frog were to be put into a pot of water at room temperature, and the water slowly brought to boil. The frog would frolick in the water, and be boiled alive.
This analogy very aptly describes us in this very rapidly changing society of Singapore in the area of morality. At one time the issues of homosexuality and lesbianism are like hot water that the society shunned like the plaque. Today the plague is the sanctity of marriage and the practice of a wholesome family-oriented heterosexuality.
We pride ourselves as being educated people, rational, open and perfectly capable of doing what is best for us, and society. We believe that our nature has evolved to such a level that nothing can go wrong with us, and that we can determine our own destiny. This thought has become central in individuals and groups, be they government, civic or religious.
The frog has a characteristic that is completely in it’s nature. It is the characteristic of being cold-blooded. Its body can adapt to the external environment so much so that as the temperature of the water rises from 30 to 60, to 80, and to 100 degrees Celsius, it just accommodates, and accommodates, and accommodates till it is cooked. We are like the frog.
We have accommodated, and accommodated and have become “cooked” and no more sensitive to abominations to our fellows. We call our ability to accommodate tolerance, non-discrimination and inclusivity. We pride ourselves with having a ‘higher-order’ psyche, a sacrosanct openness and a conscience to boot. Alas, could it be that even our conscience is seared? To anyone or any group who dares say that we are wrong, we do not care to tackle the issues, we would just resort to name-calling and attack the person like ferocious dogs. In time, they will cower and we will have our ways.
We have become a very accommodating society, often to our detriment. We only have to look at the USA and how it had evolved in immorality. If there is anything we need not learn from the American infidels, it is to ‘progress’ in the way they had ‘progressed’.
03 Jun 09 , 11:57 AM
I have to copy this here from "Come, Let Us Reason". Very Good!
A Lesson from The Frog
If a frog were to be thrown into a pot of boiling water, it would propel itself out of the boiling water instantaneously, or it would have been killed in no time. If the same frog were to be put into a pot of water at room temperature, and the water slowly brought to boil. The frog would frolick in the water, and be boiled alive.
This analogy very aptly describes us in this very rapidly changing society of Singapore in the area of morality. At one time the issues of homosexuality and lesbianism are like hot water that the society shunned like the plaque. Today the plague is the sanctity of marriage and the practice of a wholesome family-oriented heterosexuality.
We pride ourselves as being educated people, rational, open and perfectly capable of doing what is best for us, and society. We believe that our nature has evolved to such a level that nothing can go wrong with us, and that we can determine our own destiny. This thought has become central in individuals and groups, be they government, civic or religious.
The frog has a characteristic that is completely in it’s nature. It is the characteristic of being cold-blooded. Its body can adapt to the external environment so much so that as the temperature of the water rises from 30 to 60, to 80, and to 100 degrees Celsius, it just accommodates, and accommodates, and accommodates till it is cooked. We are like the frog.
We have accommodated, and accommodated and have become “cooked” and no more sensitive to abominations to our fellows. We call our ability to accommodate tolerance, non-discrimination and inclusivity. We pride ourselves with having a ‘higher-order’ psyche, a sacrosanct openness and a conscience to boot. Alas, could it be that even our conscience is seared? To anyone or any group who dares say that we are wrong, we do not care to tackle the issues, we would just resort to name-calling and attack the person like ferocious dogs. In time, they will cower and we will have our ways.
We have become a very accommodating society, often to our detriment. We only have to look at the USA and how it had evolved in immorality. If there is anything we need not learn from the American infidels, it is to ‘progress’ in the way they had ‘progressed’.
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